good sunday afternoon, i'm craig melvin, you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. now that the election is over, it's time to take on the big issues. like immigration, coming up, we'll talk about how we can balance the desire to welcome the world to our shores, while securing our borders. then inside washington, as we all edge closer to the so-called fiscal cliff, we'll ask two political insiders how we can break the pennsylvania avenue stalemate. and then later on on this veterans day, how dot men and women who served and sacrificed feel about how their issues played out on the campaign trail. first topping the political headlines on this sunday, lawmakers weighing in today on whether they can strike a deal

to avoid sending the country over the looming fiscal cliff. democratic chuck schumer saying on nbc's "meet the press," it's time for republicans to agree to raise taxes on the wealthy. >> the president campaigned on letting the bush tax cuts expire on people above $250,000 income. the exit poll showed that 60% of the people agreed with it. >> but republican senator tom coburn also on "meet the press" indicating while the gop is on board with closing some tax loopholes, it is not sold on letting the bush tax cuts expire. >> we've had votes in the senate where we've actually gotten rid of tax credits. i think that's a given. and i think the vast majority of americans agree with that. the question is -- is how do you do that. >> if lawmakers do not reach a deal by january 1st, the bush tax cuts will expire. emergency unemployment benefits will end.

and nearly $1 trillion of spending cuts will kick in. and today of course, is also veterans day. in commemoration, president obama laid a wreath at arlington national cemetery's tomb of the unknown soldier. >> each year on the 11th day of the 11th month, we pause as a nation and as a people, to pay tribute to you, to thank you, to honor you. the heroes over the generations who have served this country of ours with distinction. >> more on all of those stories throughout the next two hours. right now, though, we're learning more this afternoon about what happened in the lead-up to the shocking resignation of general david petraeus of the c.i.a. we are hearing new reaction from top officials in washington, d.c. today. nbc news white house correspondent mike viquiera joining me live now. vic, what are we learning today? >> there's a lot of back and

forth and a lot of it has to do not only with the shocking incident that came to light late friday afternoon and the fallout on capitol hill. there are some angry members of both the house and senate on the intelligence committee as it relates to the whole benghazi investigation. let's go through the timeline quickly, shall we? >> james clapper, who was nominally the head of, the boss of the collector of central intelligence, until friday, that was david petraeus, learned about this investigation into these emails that were described as harassing emails that were sent from paula broadwell to another woman. he learned about them on election day, on tuesday. on wednesday, he notified the white house. on thursday morning, the national security adviser, tom donovan, made the president aware, general petraeus was here, the former general, retired general, was here on thursday where he offered his resignation. the president slept on it overnight. called him back on friday and accepted the resignation. as far as the individual who rereceived the allegedly

harassing emails from paula broadwell, our nbc's pete williams, our justice correspondent is reporting this afternoon, she was a civilian employee of the defense department contractor, not someone in the government or military. now about the benghazi angle of all this. of course david petraeus, as head of the c.i.a. was due to testify late next week, thursday, before the house and senate intelligence committees about what happened on september 11th. the events leading up to it. any warning signs that were missed and what happened in that controversial attack that ended up in the death of the american ambassador there. bob woodward, the noted journalist, was on "meet the press" earlier today and he had a lot to say and some original reporting on this topic. >> it turns out that petraeus, a week and a half ago went to tripoli, libya. and conducted his own personal inquiry into benghazi. interviewed the station chief, actually got the base chief from

benghazi down, interviewed him. interviewed the head, i think twice of the quick reaction force that was involved in this episode. so he knows the full story. >> the chairman of the senate intelligence committee of course, that's dianne feinstein of california, has said today that though david petraeus warks n will not be testifying at the hearings she's called for later in the week, he could be called at a later time. >> mike viquiera, thank you so much. for more on the petraeus resignation, wants to bring in msnbc military analyst, retired u.s. army colonel, jack jacobs. colonel jack, thanks for sticking around. first of all, let's start with where vic left off. what do you make of the timing of all of this? >> i don't see anything untoward about this. i think the fbi investigated as quickly as they could. i think as soon as they found something out, they talked to him. there was a bit of a delay in

notifying the president. but that's something else altogether. you were asking about gen ben ghazi, do you want to talk benghazi? >> yeah. >> you've been on the ground. you know, you know what it's like to be on the ground when your intelligence is no good, i think from a military standpoint, i don't think it made any sense whatsoever to send a quick reaction force, which would neither be quick, nor would it necessarily be able to react to what was on the ground. by that time, anyway, ambassador stevens was dead. >> let's talk about from a personal standpoint. i know that you have known david petraeus and his wife, holly, for about the same length of time that they've known each other. tell me their story. >> david petraeus was a cadet at west point from '71-'75. i taught there from '73-'76. so we overlapped. holly petraeus, met him there. and why? because her father, lieutenant general william noelten, was the superintendant of the military

academy at the time. they're a military family. as a matter of fact, general knollton's family goes all the way back to the revolutionary wars. so holly petraeus has been steeped in notions about the military ever since she was, she was small. met david petraeus, they were married right after he was graduated. so they've been married for 37, almost, next year it will be 38 years. so solid military family. bem immersed in military matters for a long, long time. and she, holly, dedicated to the military to complement her husband, she's very, even now, is very active in charities to take care of military people. >> let's talk about the woman who has become this center of all of this. paula broadwell. just learned a few moments ago, literally few moments ago, we're hearing that the affair between the two of them, ended about four months ago. it lasted some nine or ten months. paula broadwell appeared on "morning joe" back in january. i want to take a listen to what

she said on the broadcast and talk about her on the other side. take a listen. >> he is very much an intellectual, as you know. the scholar, you know atypical military scholar. i think that is another reason why the agency fits him well it's much more analytic. organization, they have the paramilitary arm as well. but he appreciates the intellectual stimulation there. the brains versus brawn, although they have it all and the military does, too. >> what do we know about paula broadwell? >> she was graduated from west point herself. she spent some time in the army. as an army reserve major as a matter of fact. this book about the biography of general petraeus, was as i understand it, an outgrowth of a doctoral dissertation and there's plenty of evidence to indicate that she got an unusual amount of attention for somebody who is just taking interviews to write a doctoral dissertation. >> was there no one in the general's inner circle who could

have said, or would have said, general, this doesn't seem right to us? >> could have. probably would not have. because i think under those circumstances, general petraeus would have wised up and done something about it relatively early on. but don't forget, he was a relatively newbie, relatively new to the c.i.a., an outside guy. you don't bring a lot of your posse into the c.i.a. when you come in there probably not a lot of people who had the, who would have the guts or the access to go talk to him directly about something that they saw. >> colonel jack jacobs, i appreciate your insights, sir, thank you so much. you're welcome. how will washington deal with the petraeus situation and its effect into the investigation on the benghazi consulate attack. i want to bring in a.b. stoddard. molly ball, national reporter for the "atlantic." the timing of the petraeus resignation, days after the

election. raising the classic washington question, who knew what and when? one member of congress appears to have known about the petraeus affair before the election. house imagimajority leader eric cantor releasing a statement saying i was contacted by an fbi employee, concerned that sensitive classified information may have been compromised. allegations and the potential risk to our national security. ab, so one republican leader knew before the election. what does that mean? >> i don't know that it means a lot. i have a feeling that in light of the fact that the election is over, and particularly that romney has not been elected, the republicans are going to continue their investigation into the benghazi tragedy. with gusto and they're not going to let up, no matter what. it's a terrible story for the administration. whether or not we learn that something happened in the petraeus affair and he was compromised, and he did share

classified information with ms. broadwell and shy disseminated it to other people or something. that would be different. it would probably have nothing to do with benghazi, it's just a different track. i don't know that majority leader cantor not saying out in public before the election really matters. think these are apples and orjs, but politically the benghazi thing is a real sore spot for the administration. when they have their own investigation like mr. pickerings concluded and they can no longer cease from asking questions, it's going to be a very tough time for them. >> republican senator lindsay graham on "face the nation" this morning, molly ball, take a listen and see what he said on the other side. >> we have a national security failure in the making. i don't see how in the world you can find out what happened in benghazi, before, during and after the attack, if general petraeus doesn't testify. from my point of view, it's absolutely essential that he give testimony before the congress. >> molly, how is this benghazi back and forth likely to work out in light of these petraeus

developments? >> well, i think we have to remember how much we still don't know. we still, i mean the petraeus story just breaking on friday, and details still coming out about what was discovered and how. i mean we originally thought that this was more about classified information and now it seems like it's more about harassment. i think we have to be sort of humble in the face of all the facts that we still don't have. i think a.b. is right that at this point, they look like two separate stories. it doesn't look like they're entangled, except to the extent that petraeus is a player in both and there's a real interest in washington, not just for partisan reasons, but for government reasons of wanting to get to the bottom of what happened and have all the information there. and that means that if petraeus is the one who has the information, i think we can expect him to be called upon and not to be able to get out of that. >> a.b., so petraeus is out, we know that secretary of state hillary clinton, she's going to be leaving. a number of other positions

inside the obama cabinet thought to become vacant over the next few weeks and months. what are the names that's been tossed about a lot lately seems to be john huntsman. of course the former ambassador from, governor of utah. one-time presidential candidate. how real is the possibility of john huntsman returning to the obama administration in some capacity? >> well john huntsman's explanation of leaving the obama administration as his ambassador in china and returning to the u.s. immediately as presidential candidate, was an awkward one. and i think that john huntsman had a difficult time explaining that. not only to the conservative base, but likely to the president as well. so if president obama wants to look past that and extend an olive branch and give john huntsman another position where he can say, you know i've once again hired a republican, i could see that happening. john huntsman explaining why he would then take it, would be another wrinkle in a fascinating political story. >> a.b. stoddard, molly ball, do

stick around ladies, i want to come back to you later in the hour. >> will do. [ drum roll ] [ taps playing ] judge is. >> on this veterans day, the nation pausing to remember those who paid the ultimate price. coming up, we talk to the first iraq war vet to serve in congress. first as the voice of the american electorate takes on a more latino tone. is it a new dawn for immigration reform? ♪

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the republican party has learned that being anti-illegal, anti-immigrant, doesn't work for them politically and they know it. >> we didn't sell a positive vision. we didn't explain to people what we're for and i think that's the one thing that i took away from the election. is that, and that's what was lacking. >> the truth of the matter is, the immigration debate that we engaged in in 2006 and '7 has built a wall between the republican party and the hispanic community. because of tone and rhetoric. >> south carolina senator, lindsay graham. that was sound from this morning's round of senators. trying to explain why the republican party did so poorly with latino americansing in the election. joining us raul reyes and mike gonzales, vice president for the

heritage foundation. let's look and listen to what said the reason to blame for his poor performance on tuesday. take a listen. >> mitt romney made some mistakes. i think he is an extraordinary man. and i think he would have made an extraordinary candidate. i think mitt romney's comments is a symptom. i think the disease is the fact that the far right of the party controls the primary process. >> really, mike? was it the primary process that's to blame for governor romney's bad numbers with latinos? >> hey craig and hey raul. let me take a quick second to say this is a veterans weekend, remember our veterans for keeping our country safe. we're a country of immigrants, one of the most fascinating things about this country. i'm an immigrant. now what it's like come here and love this country. we all agree this should be a country of immigrants. we all sides also agree that

everybody who is here should be here legally. so i think as we move forward with this debate, let's first get to the things we agree on, and then leave the controversial things for later and have an honest debate about those. a quick thing -- >> i want you to answer the question. the question was, was the primary process at least partly to blame for governor romney's performance with latinos? >> you know, i think that governor romney, obviously said something that later on he regretted. i don't know, i think that it was poorly misinterpreted. i don't know what he meant by the comment he made in january during one of the debates. i would rather look forward than look back, to be honest. i, we could interpret, we should not over-interpret this election. the president, the party does have a problem, conservatives do have a problem with immigrants -- >> let me stop you here, i want to bring in raul. are we reading too much, it sounds like mike is saying we shnt over-interpret the numbers from tuesday.

i think the numbers were pretty staggering, no? >> right, actually at this point what we absolutely need to be interpreting those numbers. and i think looking back at the primaries, there may be faults with our primary system. our primary process, but that was not the problem here for the gop. the problem was, that mitt romney latch onto the self-deportation idea and took the hard right tack and he held onto it. it was so unnecessary. it wasn't just like that that he misspoke. this was an idea that he floated out there. and then many steps along the way, even into the general election, when he could have take tn back or renounced that position, he did not. so it's not even so much of a party problem, as it's his problem. and one of the things that carlos gutierrez said in his remarks, he said that many hispanics felt afraid of mitt romney and i have to respectfully disagree. i felt that a majority of hispanics and latinos, with mitt romney we felt offended and

quite angry. that's why esaw a tremendous turn-out at the polls. >> mike, the numbers don't lie, i want to put up a graphic. since george w. bush made modest gains among latinos in 2004, republicans, their share of the vote has gone down significantly. you can see the numbers there from what gw did, to what president obama did. what can republicans do at this point to bridge the apparent chasm? >> just that the 44% for george w. bush, and whose administration i served, shows that hispanics are a swing vote. there's no question that conservatives have to reach out to hispanics with a message of inclusion. a message that makes them understand that the republican party wants them amongst their ranks, wants them in this country. but also, with a conserve message. if you break down what skoefrism is. conservism is a love of tradition, a love of patriotism, which creates a solidarity in the country. it's making sure that you don't

dispense with past practice too lightly. hispanics understand these messages. i think that we, conservatives, should not abandon conservative message, we have to reach out with a conservative message that is inclusive. >> ten seconds, raul? >> the only problem with that consistent polling does show that latinos are progressive voters, they favor the affordable health care act. we support same-sex marriage in greater numbers than the rest of the population so the gop needs to retool the message. >> gentlemen, i appreciate your time. nearly two weeks after hurricane sandy came ashore, nearly 200,000 are still in the dark. the latest on the recovery effort coming up. and later, karl rove's super pac. the man says it's here to stay. ♪

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or go to walmart.com for details. new details coming in on the resignation of general david petraeus from the c.i.a. his former spokesman told nbc news that the general's affair ended about four months ago and it lasted nine or ten months. altogether the affair started a couple of months after petraeus started at the c.i.a. boilingen adds that petraeus' wife, holly, is hanging tough and to say she is furious, would be a quote, understatement. we'll bring you more details as we get them. here's a quick look at other stories making news, two weeks after superstorm sandy, more than 147,000 people in the northeast are still in the dark. meanwhile, a stray syrian

shell struck an israeli military post in the golan heights along the israeli/syrian border. the israeli army said they don't believe they were the target. but they fired a warning shot in response. and in afghanistan, nato says a gunman wearing an afghan army uniform, shot and killed a service member serving with the u.s.-led coalition. so far 50 u.s. troops have been killed inside afghanistan this year. we'll flash back to the 2,000 recount just getting under way. what if anything florida has learned since. ♪ and on this veteran's day, we look to the thousands of men and women who have served and we'll ask if their needs have been met over the past four years, and we'll look ahead to the next four years, you're watching msnbc, the place for politics.

earlier we saw president obama honoring our nation's veterans during the traditional laying of the wreath ceremony at the tomb of the unknown. one of several events being held to pause and commemorate veterans day, from the sight as and sounds of parades like this in new york city, to the sheer silence of families visiting grave sites at arlington cemetery. today we all pause to thank and remember. were veterans' issues honored on the campaign trail? some say not enough. governor romney neglected to mention veterans or america's wars during his speech at the republican national convention and after president obama said he would continue to fight for veterans during his acceptance speech they were not very prominent for the rest of his campaign. joining me now is former democratic congressman patrick murphy, the first veteran of the iraq war to serve in congress. he is also an obama campaigner.

and now he's former congressman patrick murphy. happy veterans day to you, sir. as an iraq war veteran, how do you feel about not hearing more from either candidate about veterans' issues on the trail? >> well, listen, the campaign is over and i was disappointed with mitt romney, governor romney for not mentioning it. and the third debate on foreign policy, he didn't mention veterans one time and in his 45-minute acceptance speech. but what's important is now that that election is over, craig, we need to come together as americans, democrats and republicans. to do all we can to help these public/private partnerships to be there for these heroes. craig, as you know, it's less than 1% of americans have served in iraq or afghanistan. and over, almost 500,000 of them, suffer from post traumatic stress disorder or traumatic brain injury. that's the signature wound of these wars. we need to learn the lessons from world war ii, from korea,

from vietnam. from desert storm that we're going to do all we can as a nation to take care of these heroes when they come home. >> congressman, i want to go inside the campaign for a few moments here before i let you go. there's the, there's a report today in "the wall street journal" i want to throw up a full screen here, it describes the negative attacks that the obama campaign ran early on. it describes them as part of a, a key strategy, six months ago, start early and go hard, essentially, was the strategy laid out by jim mussina, the campaign head. do you feel proud of the campaign that you were a part of? given that it went negative so early? >> both sides did negative campaigning. i've been through battles in the congressional seat where i was a democrat and in a mostly republican area and i won twice. the reality of it is this -- now that campaign is over, we can both say what's all this third-party money doing in there? let's stop these negative campaigns. you know why the campaigns do

it, why they do the negative ads. because they work. >> they do. >>s did what it is. but let's now come together and move forward. and listen, jim mussina, i know personally, he's brilliant guy. he loves his country. and he's doing all he can for a guy he believes in in barack obama. >> all right. former congressman patrick murphy, essentially it sounds like the ends justify the means when it comes to campaigns. >> i think, when i was in congress we tried to pass a bill to disclose that and other things. we got to know who is putting money in these elections, it's gotten too much. we just spent $6 billion on political campaigns last week. i mean -- that's outrageous. >> it's an eye-popping total. >> you're including congress, senate, and the local races as well. >> yes. >> thank you for your time. but most importantly, thank you for your service to our country. >> thanks, craig, you're a great american, appreciate it. let's pick up on the fallout from general petraeus' resignation in our war room. where we break down politics, go

inside the strategies behind the headlines. with me, democratic strategist, richard goodstein, and fellow south carolinaen and former cham chairman of the south carolina republican party. the petraeus announcement. what do you make of the timing? >> well craig, he's not the first soldier ever to stray from his marital values and certainly won't be the last. it's probably a shame to diminish this from his brilliant military record in my heart certainly goes out to he and his family. we've seen the carnage of public figures that do this in south carolina and all over the country. the timing, it is what it is, craig. i don't think it would have had any effect on the election. certainly it's a tragic thing for his family. but you know, the end of the day, i don't think it would have impacted any of the swing states or the election totals. because i think general petraeus did what he's supposed to do. resign from office and did the honorable thing.

>> richard, do you think this is a vself-contained scandal? or the beginning of a drip-drip that's going to lead to a flood? >> you know, if president obama had not taken out bin laden and if david petraeus perhaps more than any other american did not keep the country safe since 9/11, maybe, maybe. and if we had any evidence whatsoever that this trace to anything that the president knew or could have done anything about, before the election, look, craig, i would ask this question -- do we think the electorate that just voted was claim, was saying, please, let's have more of these investigations, they're divisive, around issues that incidentally have nothing to do with the welfare of this country. i don't think that's what we heard on election day. i certainly agree with kaiden, i don't think this would have made a bit of difference had we known it a week ago. >> let's switch gears, no secret that the heat is on rove right

now, the super pac american crossroads, spent more than $100 million. some say three times as much on general election races, he had a 1.29 success rate. supported no winning candidates. at this point, kaiton dawson, are republican insiders looking at the architect any differently now? >> i'm certainly not looking at it any differently. god bless karl rove for what he does. the donors, the rickets are all of them are good american patriots in my mind. >> good american patriots, katon dawson? >> people that question the ability for independent expenditures and outside groups should take a look at the supreme court who awarded the affordable care act. the same supreme court that gave citizens united versus fec and free speech a chance. at the end of the day, republicans got beaten handily, no matter how much we spent. i've been with karl before when

we got all wins and it was brilliant. the fact is that the republicans got it handed to them this cycle. we'll regroup. we've got 2014 suspect will be a lot like 2010. but let's compliment the president's ground game. at the end of the day, i saw it i felt it. the success was there because they understand how to organize, canvass for the vote and they won. >> four years from now, are we still talking about crossroads and crossroads gps as well? or do you think we have seen the end of money like we just saw? do you think we've seen the end of it in contemporary politics? >> it's a good question. look, donald trump has made fun of karl rove for squandering $400 million when donald trump in political circles is making fun of you, you've got trouble. i think karl rove is the butt of a joke, but i do think, and let me just quote for you what they asked him on fox when he was engaging in his rant about whether they should have called ohio at a time when everybody else did as well.

they said, karl, i this just math you do as a republican to make yourself feel better? or is this real? i mean at fox, the only platform he has now, they don't even take him seriously any more. so, but if he raises another $400 million in two years or four years, do i think we'll probably be talking about him? maybe. but honestly, i hope he has the same success rate then that he did this year and i think democrats will be perfectly happy with that outcome. >> katon, you ran rick perry's campaign in south carolina. do we think at this point that governor perry is chuckling a little when it comes to the issue of immigration. based on what the other candidates were saying, it sounds as if at least when you look at the exit polling. that the majority of americans view, side with governor perry on immigration? >> governor perry was right. i was there when he look over and said -- that the republican position very well could be heartless towards hispanics and governor perry is right. all you need to do is look at the two successful republican

governors from texas, george bush and rick perry, who understand the republican party's success and lifeblood is going to be reaching out to the hispanic voter. and we've missed that chance right now. and we've got to short window to make it up. because hispanics are lot like the government platform. they want government out of their way, they want the ability to achieve greatness and we as a republican party should pay more attention to the rick perrys of the world who firsthand understand the sensitivities of that community and the needs, but he did a lot of criticism and he wouldn't back up and he wouldn't stop when the republican cold political wind was blowing against him. >> republican strategist, katon dawson, democratic strategist goldstein. coming up in the aftermath of the election, the speaker of the house telling his troops to fall in line. could john boehner face another revolt? first, we go back to

florida, ground zero for head counts and election nights with no winners, again? this is msnbc. ♪ [ male announcer ] the way it moves. the way it cleans. everything about the oral-b power brush is simply revolutionary. oral-b power brushes oscillate, rotate and even pulsate to gently loosen and break up that sticky plaque with more brush movements than manual brushes and even up to 50% more than leading sonic technology brushes for a superior clean. oral-b power brushes. go to oralb.com for the latest offers.

from his ranch in crawford, texas, governor bush voiced his objections to a third recount of ballots in florida. >> we've had one count and then we had another count. and fortunately, we won both counts. >> by going to court, bush is hoping to insure his lead in florida unofficially a 327-vote marnellen doesn't change in tallahassee today, former secretary of state, james baker, repeated his argument that hand-counting is subjective and unreliable and he accused the gore campaign of needlessly dragging the election out.

>> flash back to 12 years ago there as the florida recount battle was just getting under way. it would take another month, more recounts, and finally the decision by the supreme court to finally settle that matter. that was florida 12 years ago. here we are in 2012, and florida's vote tally just came in about oh, about 24 hours ago. as we reported yesterday, president obama, the projected winner in the sunshine state, he will get that state's 29 electoral votes. joining me now from miami, mark prudhoe, political reporter for the "miami herald," why is it always florida? >> there's something in the water. there are 1,000 explanations. this is a little bit of a butterfly effect, little things spiral out into big things. and you had a variety of different things that kind of conspired against us to call for a long night of casting and counting ballots and an even longer time of getting the results in. >> give me two of the things.

just give me two of the small things. >> well, there was one that was kind of big. well, it's a bill. hb 1355 passed in 2011 by republican legislature, signed by governor rick scott. it shortened early voting days from 14 to 8. rick scott refused to extend the hours when he saw long lines. the same bill also allowed for constitutional amendments proposed constitutional amendments to be printed in full, because the legislature was peeved that the courts kept throwing their amendments off the ballot because they appeared misleading. you had a really long ballot and a little less time to vote early. so when folks showed up on election day, there were long lines and the county election folks in some precincts did not properly equip those presignatures to have voting booths and reading machines to accept the ballots. perfect storm and long, long lines and hours and hours of

waiting. >> one interesting note in the election laboratory that is florida. you report in the "herald," that the president won the cuban-american vote, came close to winning the cuban-american vote on election day. aren't cuban americans traditionally behind the republican candidates? >> they are. exit polls are little tough to get a handle on. they can be difficult to gauge. cuban-american support, because they typically vote by absentee ballots and they can be missed in exit polls, but anecdotal evidence suggests it was higher for president obama this year than any democrat before. >> hopefully four years from now when we have you back on is not to talk about florida. >> no, it's our favorite, favorite topic to talk about, we love it. still to come, new details about how knew what and when. and will the man who was the nation's top spy until a few days ago be forced to testify before congress this week? first, what may be john boehner's impossible task.

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now that the votes are counted, washington can get to other pressing business, the looming fiscal cliff being the top priority. house speaker john boehner said after the election that republicans would have to work with the white house. >> the american people have spoken. they've re-elected president obama, and they've again re-elected a republican majority in the house of representatives. if there's a mandate in yesterday's results, it's a mandate for us to find a way to work together on the solutions to the challenges we all face. >> david axelrod said the

comments were encouraging. >> the speaker said he wasn't going to get into details about what he would or wouldn't accept. he didn't want to foreclose discussions. that was a positive sign. his rhetoric has been encouraging. >> rhetoric encouraging. always interesting to hear those words. let's bring back amy stoddard and molly bald. molly, i'll start with you. what's the real chance here for compromise? >> i think we're still finding out where these two sides are positioning themselves. frankly, i don't know if the republicans themselves, if john boehner and mitch mcconnell, know how much wiggle roop they have at this point. they're still serving their caucuses and trying to figure out where everybody is. that more than anything is going to determine what kind of deal gets made. the democrats are presenting a very united front. they seem very confident. people on the left are very encouraged by the strong statement that the president made on friday.

>> you also wrote here in your most recent column that at least at this point it looks like we know which president obama is going to show up for these negotiations. it is not going to be the compromiser in chief. >> right, the sort of tremendously weak negotiator he proved to be on the debt ceiling a year ago is the one democrats were fearful was going to show up again. at least so far you had him pointing to his leverage on friday. that's encouraging for democrats. >> amy, what are the chances that the speaker is going to be able to get some of his folks to fall in line? >> well, it's going to be a very tough task for speaker boehner. what he's trying to tell them right now is they need to get past this, that they can no longer govern at the brink in a state of crisis all the time, lurching from one partial shutdown to fear of another shutdown. they have to get this fiscal cliff out of the way so that they can go on to cleaner fights with a popular president that can't win every vote every day. the problem, as you know, with

their conference is that although some people have been humbled by the election and feel that they, too, want to look like they're governing, there's too many mixed interpretations about what the election results meant. you have republicans looking at re-elected republicans in the senate and house saying, we're leer to be a balancing act, check and balance in a divided government. it's a very tough challenge to to say at this point how well speaker boehner is going to do in terms of getting to a deal and getting there by december 31. right now you're hearing them speak past each other. it's important to remember that just saying you want to make a deal is encouraging enough. they still have to say they're not going to raise taxes and president obama still has to say he's not going to budge either. >> it's been very interesting to hear the language both of them have used because it sounds at least at this point, it sounds at least the one thing they both can agree on or have openly somewhat agreed on is this idea of limiting deductions and closing loopholes, that being a way to generate revenue instead of raising rates on anyone.

>> i agree with you that that is -- that already represents a concession on the part of the republicans because when they're saying we won't raise tax rates, they're saying we will let in revenue in other ways, which they wouldn't have allowed bvr. at the same time, where the rubber meets the road is when we start talking about which loopholes we're going to close. that is raising somebody's taxes with you close a loophole, whether it's a corporation or income bracket. as soon as somebody's ox starts being gored, that's when we find how political it is. >> certain people might be okay with closing loopholes and using that to raise revenue versus raising tax rates. i don't understand why that is. >> depending on the loophole, there may not be enough money there. depending on the amount of this gap they're trying to close, i question whether closing so-called loopholes are palatable. >> amy, thank you so much for

sticking around. do appreciate you. molly, thanks to you as well. always appreciate you. up next, new details about what david petraeus was doing in libya as the fbi was combing through his e mail account at the cia. plus, after years of running for the white house, what's next for mitt romney? what's in his future? we'll talk about that. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do

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plus, voters in colorado and washington state will be able to light up legally very soon. but will that really fly with the feds? we'll talk about pot. then later, don't think that just because the election is over that the horse race has come to a screeching halt. heck, no. the bench already filling up with contenders for 2016. that and more straight ahead. to our political headlines now. today, of course, veteran's day. around the country, americans are honoring those who have served. this morning, president obama laid a wreath at arlington national cemetery's tomb of the unknown soldier. meanwhile, crowds gathered in manhattan to commemorate the day. organizers are using the occasion to collect winter coats for hard-hit hurricane sandy victims with so many in the area still recovering from the storm. and jesse jackson jr.'s days as a congressman could be numbered. "the chicago sun times" reports representatives for jackson are working on a plea deal to where

he would resign from congress. he reportedly could face jail time. new details coming in to us this afternoon on the surprising resignation of general david petraeus from the cia. let's go straight to nbc news white house correspondent mike vickera. >> reporter: this controversy exploded just two days ago. the details have been coming fast and furious. kristen welker spoke with a former spokesman for david petraeus. he relayed the following information. his name is steve boylan. he says he spoke with david me tray yus today and learned the following information. the affair that is at the heart of this scandal that ended his career ended four months ago. in total, it lasted nine or ten months. it started a couple months after petraeus started at the cia,

after he left active duty. if you recall, david wa petraeu was elevated to that post by president obama. petraeus sounded tired today. lastly, petraeus told boylan during their conversation today that his wife holly will continue to work in her current position. of course, that is at the consumer financial protection bureau. it's just a block from where i'm standing now where she deals where housing issues that are vital to veterans. that is a newly formed agency. she hasn't been at job all that long, craig. >> vick, stay with me for a second. i want to bring in colonel jack jacobs. you've known general petraeus for decades. you've known his wife for just as long. we're a couple days out now. i want to put you on the spot, if i can. do you think he should have resigned? >> yes, i think there are a lot of people, politicians mostly,

but also people in the agency and a lot of people in the military establishment who would like to have seen him stay. he's a very talented guy and has proved himself to be an able soldier and a good company guy, too. he's a great team player. they would have liked to have seen him stay during a period of time where things are going to get extremely difficult and we're at great risk, but he did the right thing. think of what would have happened had he stone walled it. the cover-up is always more important than anything else. all the while, the administration would be trying to fight a budget battle and the rest of it. it's best he turn in his resignation. >> it would have been a great distraction. >> tremendous distraction. >> vick, what are we hearing from the white house? what are we hearing on the hill about whether the four-star general is going to testify before that closed-door committee this week with regards to what happened in benghazi? >> reporter: of course. when four americans, including the ambassador, were killed on september 11th.

obviously a big controversy, something that republicans have been hammering away on. at this point, you know, there are hearings scheduled that will go forward with a new interim dci, mr. morell. on thursday, both the senate and house will have hearings. david petraeus will not be testifying at those hearings, as was originally planned. congress can compel virtually anyone to testify at a hearing. you can ask roger clemens on that score. whether they would subpoena or somehow compel david petraeus to come before them, i sort of doubt it at this point. the question is, would david petraeus come before them if they called him and voluntarily ask questions about what happened in benghazi. as bob woodward reported this morning, david petraeus actually traveled to the region personally on a fact-finding mission to find out what happened. >> our man at white house.

vick, thank you so much. colonel jack jacobs, thank you to you as well. do appreciate you. changing gears now. five days since america said good-bye to mitt romney. what's in store for him now? on the phone, nbc news campaign garrett hake who trailed the governor for some 16 months. talk to us about the final hours afterwards. >> in the final hours after governor romney walked off that stage, he still stayed pretty involved with some of the folks in his campaign. he stopped by a breakfast on wednesday morning for his top staff. kind of reviewed some of the moments in his campaign, looking backwards a little bit. then addressed his entire campaign staff wednesday afternoon in boston. he and ann romney both thanking the staff at large for their service and for giving up so much of their lives. i can also tell you, in

conversation with romney aides in the last few hours, he's been helping some of those staffers find new jobs. >> tell me about what happened with the credit cards. i heard from you or read somewhere there was a bit of a rude awakening just a few hours after the campaign ended. >> right. ju another example of how quickly these campaigns, which take so lock to ramp up, start to shut down. a number of romney aides told me on wednesday in the wee hours of the morning, a lot of these folks staying late to clean up and tear down the set, just even getting out of their cabs on their way back home early wednesday morning found their romney campaign credit cards had been shut off. i tried to call a staffer in florida on wednesday and her cell phone had already been shut down and disconnected. these things wind down extremely quickly. >> it was a campaign that was trumpeting fiscal conservatism. if you're fiscally conservative, i guess that makes sense.

>> stuck to that to the very end. >> but i understand that they're getting severance pay, most of the staffers are getting severance pay through november s. is that correct? >> that's right. a lot of people have different deals worked out. by and large, the staffers who were full-time on the campaign have a little while to take cover under the campaign's payment system. you're talking to folks who have done campaigns before, know the drill. most of these folks expect to take a nice, long break here in november and december and come back in earnest in january and start looking for the next big challenge. >> all right. garrett haake, speaking of looking for the next big challenge, good luck to you in getting your life back. congratulations. >> thanks, craig. joining me now, ronald scott, journalist and author of "mitt romney: an inside look at the man and his politics." also with me, matt visor.

shortly after conceding, governor romney vowed not to, quote, fall off the map. you know romney well. what do you think is next for him? >> well, i don't know for sure what his next step will be. i know it won't include taking a voluntary position with the church. i know that the campaign itself is -- the people who have worked on the campaign for the last eight years are pretty depressed bunch. it's my view they really expected to win on tuesday night. i still think they're in shock that things didn't go their way. but among the kinds of things that he might consider doing, obviously he's going to take at least a figure head role in the firm his son ais involved in. that will be a figure head thing.

certainly not fulfilling to him. but the kind of thing he might do is be taking on some kind of a global leadership role like president carter and president clinton have done in the past. bottom line is he can do pretty much what he wants to do. he's a man of unusual financial resources and energy. i take him at his word he's not going to fall off the map. >> matt, we've seen other presidential candidates go on to other things. al gore, of course, grew that now infamous beard, invested in a tv network. there's bob dole. he became a pitchman for viagra, eventually pepsi as well. micha micha michael dukakis went the professorial route. >> i think we'd be shocked if he

grew a beard. a lot of people expect him to take a little bit of time off, be a full-time grandfather for a while. he's got 18 grand kids, another on the way. may head out to their house in la hoya. if you remember, one of the things that became a hot-button issue was their building on to that building a car garage. they sort of stopped that. it was in the heat of a campaign. no longer will people have the type of scrutiny on him that they did during the campaign. you can expect him to do some of that. non-profit work is something he may end up doing. he's 65. you know, kind of a traditional age of retirement. few people expect governor romney to retire in any sort of traditional way. >> ron, you just mentioned that the governor will definitely not take a role in the church, in the mormon church. why not? >> well, i think it would play right into the hands of critics

who suggest that he is too closely tied to the mormon church. i think the church itself would be reluctant to put him in a position of leadership at this particular point. the reality is he probably does more good for the church as an outside person than an inside person. >> ronald scott and matt visor, thanks to you both. >> thanks, craig. still to come, are we seeing a shift when it comes to attitudes toward legalizing pot? we're going to talk to a former white house adviser on drug policy. should a fascinating conversation. first, a new presidential term and perhaps a new agenda. climate change activists planning to protest at the white house next week. they're not wasting any time. do they have an ally in the oval office? this is msnbc. okay, that looks great...

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have some breaking news to tell you about right now in the resignation of general david petraeus. nbc news has now learned the identity of the woman who purportedly received the harassing e-mails from paula broadwell. that woman is 37-year-old jill kelley of tampa, florida. petraeus describes kelley and her husband as, quote, long-time family friends and that the petraeuses would often get together with them. all this being confirmed by nbc. again, breaking news with regards to the resignation of david petraeus. we're efforting more information. if we get it in the next few

minutes, we'll pass it along to you. we want our children to live in an america that isn't burdened by debt, that isn't weakened by inequality, that isn't threatened by the deit instructive power of a warming planet. [ cheers and applause ] >> that was president obama on election night mentioning climate change and energy policy as part of his second term vision. the timing was key since one week from today environmentalists will be protesting the keystone pipeline outside the white house just as they did last year. joining me now via skype, penn state university professor michael mann, who shared the nobel peace prize back in 2007 with his fellow climate range report authors and al gore. what are you guys hoping to accomplish next week? you aren't wasting any time here. >> well, i'm encouraged that the president has stated very

affirmatively the case for acting on this issue. he appointed all the right people to cabinet-level positions to science policy, epa, the office of science and technology policy. lisa jackson at epa. so he appointed all the right people to positions of authority when it comes to science policy, but he didn't really let them do as much as they could in that first term. it sounds like he's going to be more proactive in the second term. >> what are you asking from the president with regards to the keystone pipeline. >> well, you know, my job as a scientist is simply to inform those matters of policy. i try not to prescribe policy. that isn't my role. we have to make sure when we make decisions about our energy infrastructure that we take into

account the full cost of those decisions, that we do a full-cost accounting of the impact, for example, of building this pipeline, taking large amounts of dirty oil sands and, you know, using this vast reserve of fossil fuels that has the potential to elevate co-2 concentrations to levels we know are going to be dangerous to the planet. we have to internalize those costs so that they're represented in the energy making decisions. >> senator major leader harry reid spoke to climate change on wednesday. take a listen to what he had to say. i want to talk about it on the other side. >> climate change is an extremely important issue for me. i hope we can address it reasonably. it's something, as we've seen with these storms overwhelming our country and the world, that we need to do something about.

>> we know where the manjority leaders stand on this. what about the rest of the congress? would they stand behind the president? >> i've seen some good signs. the fact that, you know, michael bloomberg, who is largely seen as a bipartisan figure, a nonpartisan political figure, came out and said he was supporting the president, not because of his politics, but because he was convinced that president obama would act on this problem, and it was very encouraging, of course, to see in his victory speech that he specifically spoke to this issue. at the same time, i see some potential for a bipartisan cooperation on this issue. you know, the fact is that climate change shouldn't be a partisan issue. whether you're republican or a democrat, the impacts are going to be felt by us all. by all of our children and grandchildren if we don't act now to avert a potential catastrophe. it's nice to see that there are conservatives. for example, there's an effort at the american enterprise institute, a conservative think

tank, an effort run by bob englas, who's a former republican congressman from south carolina, to find a revenue neutral approach to putting some sort of cost on the emission of carbon, to allowing the free market to try to solve this problem by internalizing those costs. >> michael mann, thank you. >> thank you. coming up, the young bloods. who's on the bench for the gop in 2016? we'll check the roster. first, now that voters have placed pot among the legal ways to unwind in colorado and washington state, what will it mean for the rest of the country? should be a fascinating conversation. you're watching msnbc.

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marijuana, if my mother is watching, just got more complicated. voters in colorado and washington state made history this week, becoming the first states to legalize recreational marijuana. massachusetts also joined 17 other states and the district of columbia to legalize medical marijuana. how might these new laws effect the nation's war against drugs? joined now by the former white house senior adviser. are we witnessing the beginning of a nationwide decriminalization of pot? >> hi, craig. thanks for having me. before we talk about this, because the issue of substance abuse is so linked to the issue of veterans, i just want to say that not only thank you so our veterans but also we still need you. that's a message that's being carried out by groups like mission continues and the drug treatment court, justice for vets program. the issue of substance abuse in the military and also among our veterans is a big one. switching to the area of

marijuana, you know, when we have more marijuana available, which is what legalization would do, i don't think it's good for any part of society. you know, the issue is we have seen a trend towards decriminalization, but there's a big difference between decriminalization and legalization. i think legalization, which is commercial retail sales, we've sort of been there, done that with tobacco and seeing how big tobacco has deceived american for so many years and the alcohol industry has targeted kids. i don't think we need to go there with marijuana. it doesn't mean we shouldn't reform some of our policies and make sure people aren't in prison or don't have long arrest records for small amounts of marijuana. that's a very big difference between that and legalization. >> the new recreational laws in washington state and colorado, they conflict with existing federal laws. you have said in the past that once the states actually try to implement these laws that the feds will shut them down. how do you think that's going to play out? >> well, there are a couple ways it could play out. obviously it's a continuing story. the justice department has said

that marijuana laws remain unchanged. they said that a couple days ago. they're sort of reviewing options. i mean, obviously, there could be pre-emptive action by the federal government saying that, look, this is what the federal law is that congress has determined. president obama has said on multiple occasions that he is against legalization, both personally and his administration. that was the stance when i was there as well with the president's first drug strategy and also with our drug czar, who's done fantastic work over the last three years. i think that, you know, the federal law still remains. the issue is, again, i don't think anyone is saying that people need to be arrested or put in prison or jail for small amounts of marijuana. that really isn't happening anyway, in terms of the imprisonment. for the arrests, we can reform those -- that bad part of our law woet really going to the extreme and having commercial sales, which is what colorado and washington are trying to do. it's definitely a story that we're going to be seeing played out. for young people and others,

this is not a good policy. >> are we witnessing a dramatic shift with regards to public sentiment about marijuana in this country? it seems like we are. >> yeah, well, i mean, i think there's a big misconception between today's marijuana and the marijuana in the '60s and '70s. you see baby boomers, for example, or the millennials, who think that, you know, look, i smoked marijuana a couple times. i was fine. f nothing bad happened. when i think they're missing is today's marijuana is not the marijuana of the '60s. it's not your woodstock weed, as i've heard said before. it's just grown in a much more sophisticated way now. you have the thc content, which is much higher. other chemicals in marijuana, which don't make you high, have been virtually bred out of street modern marijuana. there's a big disconnect. i actually think there's a very comfortable third way of going forward where it's not prohibition, it's not criminalization, but it's something that's smarter with use of our resources.

obviously, time will tell, but, you know, i think we shouldn't get into this game, this black and white prohibition versus legalization. >> fascinating conversation, sir. do appreciate your time. >> thank you, craig. still to come, mitt romney gained ground among white voters, but that's actually really about it. can the gop salvage their chances with brown and beige voters in america? we'll talk about that. also, the latest details following cia director david petrae petraeus' resignation. and up next, what's hillary clinton's next move? certainly not too early to speculate about 2016. we enjoy doing that here from time to time. stop your groens. this is msnbc, the place for politics. [ female announcer ] the humana walmart-preferred rx plan p-d-p gives you a low national plan premium... so you can focus on what really matters. call humana at 1-800-808-4003.

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nbc news has learned the identity of the woman who purportedly received those harassing e-mails from petraeus' biographer, paula broadwell. that woman is 37-year-old jill kelley of tampa, florida. kelley and her husband are described as long-time family friends of petraeus. the sources also say that petraeus and his wife holly would often get together with the kelleys. we're also learning this afternoon that a former top aid to general petraeus who was interviewed by broadwell thought that the reporter had too much access. gerngs we'll don't update this story as we learn information. back to politics now. we just barely survived the avalanche of political ads, debates, and polls of the 2012 presidential race. five days after election day, political insiders are already laying odds on the next round of contenders for the campaign of 2016. we get more now from nbc's andrea mitchell. >> craig, we've only just barely

survived the avalanche of political ads, debates, and polls but just a few days later, political insiders are already laying odds on the next round of contenders for the campaign of 2016. the votes from this election weren't even all counted when the speculation began. would she or wouldn't she? >> i am out of politics, but i do care deeply about what happens to the country that i love and that i've served. >> there was even more talk after her husband became president obama's star closer. >> let me tell you something. i may be the only person in america, but i'm far more enthusiastic about president obama this time. >> she's logged thousands of miles to countries where she's already treated as head of the state. she's a hero to woman. >> if you want a real world leader and you're really, really lucky, this is what you get.

>> i think people know who the real hillary clinton is. they like what they see. i think obviously she would be the formidable front runner. no question about it. >> clearly, hillary 2016 is trending. even people who take her at her word say she can always change her mind and run. >> she can wait longer than anybody else because she has the name recognition and the rolodex. >> with this week's victory, joe biden is clearly thinking about his own run for the white house. >> i'm feeling pretty good. >> the last time you're going to vote for yourself, you think? >> i don't think so. >> and there's always new york governor andrew cuomo. the republicans have their own starting lineup. paul ryan, who played the role of understudy in this campaign, new jersey governor chris christie, even though some conservative republicans blame him for his high-octane embrace of president obama. florida senator marco rubio on a fak fast track who say he's the republican solution to the problem with hispanics. >> if i'm a serious policymaker,

i'll have a lot of opportunities to do different things in politics, outside of politics. >> and there are some party leaders who are still long for former florida governor jeb bush. you can argue that it is too early to even be thinking about 2016, but ask yourself, when did barack obama first start dreaming about becoming president? craig. >> andrea mitchell, thanks to you for some smart speculation. now let's bring in the brain trust. joan walsh, editor at large for salon.com. also an msnbc political analyst. perry bacon, the editor for "the g rir grio." this is a limit brain trust. sometimes we have to fake it. not today. let's pick up the here. let's start with where andrea started. hillary clinton, one ocht names most frequently mentioned for the 2016 democratic ticket. today's "new york times," the review section devoted its first page to clinton's next move after she steps down from her cabinet position. she apparently told gail collins

she's going to take some time to relax. she might consider a home decorating show as well. joan, are you buying her modest responses to questions about a presidential run? >> i am buying it. >> really? >> i think she genuinely doesn't want to run at this point. if she gets some sleep, if she goes home, if she starts to hear from women all around the country who want her to run, and if she has to listen to her husband, who clearly wants her to run, i think there's a chance that she changes her mind. i think there's also a chance she doesn't. she could have a wonderful life doing great work on women's issues without being president. i think that side could prevail. it's going to be a tug for sure. >> matt, clinton not the only name that's being mentioned on the democratic side. there's a new poll by the pollsters at public policy polling. it's a democratic leaning firm. voters in iowa, they asked these voters who they would like to see run for president. let's throw it up there. hillary clinton topped the list at 58%. look at the rest of the list.

you have america's happy warrior, joe biden, at 17%. andrew cuomo at 6%. elizabeth warren at 3%. do we think that there's a chance, mattwe welsh, that we s a democratic primary featuring hillary clinton and joe biden? >> i think there's no chance in hell. nate siler haver is not putting money on joe biden this time around. hillary clinton so dominates this field, which is remarkable considering where she was in public opinion in this country in the 1990s. she was a real divisive figure, not necessarily her fault. people really made her a lightning rod for things. now she's in a place where she's the republican's favorite democrat. it's a very strange turn around. i think the democrats, as that poll illustrates, have a really weak bench right now. the democratic convention, if you look at the star speakers -- you know, if a mediocre mayor of

a misgoverned town is one of your stars, you have a problem. hillary is so close to it. i have a hard time believing that not just women but men and all democrats, and maybe other people, will put pressure on her to run in 2016. the question will be is if the democrats at that point have created a situation where they can continue winning. >> perry, let's talk about some of the republican names being dropped. as we just saw in andrea's piece there, jeb bush, former florida governor, senator marco rubio, frequently mentioned, all the time mentioned, actually. paul ryan. chris christie. condoleezza rice, another name frequently mentioned. are there any that jump out at you, someone who might be a front runner at this point? >> i would say marco rubio. we know he's going to it iowa this month. you know, 11 days after the election, marco rubio will be in iowa, the first state. you know he's thinking about it. if you look at the election results, the republicans, i

think, to me, can't have an all-white ticket, all-white male ticket. >> well, they could. >> they could, but they would probably lose. so i think they've got to think in terms of how do i diversify this party? marco rubio is a charismatic figure. he's leading the line in terms of figures who are well-respected in the party. the tea party likes him. moderate republicans like him. he's ahead of paul ryan right now. >> all right, guys. sit tight. perry, i want to ask you about something you wrote on the other side of this break. we're going to have much or on the race. quick break here on msnbc. don't go anywhere. in america today we're running out of a vital resource we need to compete on the global stage. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone's ready

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matt welsh. you know what? i'm going to start with you. let's talk about latino voters this year. we've heard over the past three or four days ad nauseam folks talk about what someone like marco rubio could mean at the top of the ticket for the gop. is it that simple? will it take a lot more than just sticking a latino on the ticket to help the gop make end roads? >> yeah, it's going to take a lot more than that. first of all, let's remember that mitt romney as a candidate was probably the most hostile to illegal immigration and arguably immigration than any major party candidate had been maybe in my lifetime. or certainly in the last 30

years. john mccain almost lost the republican primary season in 2008 because he was in favor of comprehensive immigration reform. he had to double back. they're going to have to get out of that. they're going to have to be able to say there is a different path forward, not just to citizenship, but to dealing with immigration as an issue, which is complicated, understandably. but start with more actually free market type of solutions and say, hey, look, why are we micromanaging the number of immigrants from each and every country? why don't we expand the number of visas? start with that, certainly. start shutting down people who use immigration as a very passionate and very irrational issue from which to sort of project all of their fears. >> we are already starting to see and hear some of that from folks on the right. let's switch gears and talk about this year's electorates.

according to exit polls, there's been a steady decline of white voters. in 2008, they made out 80%. in 2004, you see it go down. in 2012, we're looking at about 72%. here's today's salon article. america, love it or leave it behind. you wrote about the decline of white voters and the problem it poses for republicans. to use the title of your book here, what's the matter with white people? >> well, first i want to not generalize about my people. none of kus generalize about our people. >> welcome to my world. >> you can tell me all about it. president obama won young, white voters. he won unmarried women voters. he did better in ohio with white working class voters than other places. we shouldn't generalize. on the other hand, at least 90% of mitt romney's voters were white. that's a problem in a country that's now only 62% white.

i think that the republicans are on a path to demographic extinction if they don't, as matt said, get more realistic about the nature of the country that we live in. also, i feel that -- you know, you heard bill o'reilly go off on tuesday night about the white establishment is dead. really not seeing himself as part of the multiracial future. that's a problem. you know, the title of my article was "america: love it or be left behind." this is the future. if you don't want to get with the future, you're going to have a problem being comfortable here. >> it was a fascinating read. perry, so was yours. your most recent article, you point out that republicans are essentially facing three different and distinct issues after the election. what are they? >> i wrote about the history problems, specifically the black voters, where black voters feel like for a variety of reasons, democrats are more in line with them historically and so on.

hispanic voters, immigration. we know that issue, et cetera. also, romney lost asian-american voters by 47 points, which tells me the party not only has the history and the issues problem but also a little bit of a perception problem. we're getting to the point where now if you're a young minority voter, the republican party is maybe viewed as one just in the popular image as kind of the white party and do i want to join that. that's something that a republican -- a more diverse republican ticket would fix all by itself. the reception of that party is not great right now as being diverse. >> matt, here's the thing. this is probably going to be an awful comparison, but it's not going to stop me from making it on live television. in college, you know, there are a lot of folks. you're going to a party. someone will say, is it a white party a black party? if it's a white party, a lot of black people night not go. vice versa. how do you attract minority

voters when you don't have any minority people at the party? >> well, there are some minority people. there were some interesting candidates, including one who lost in utah, mya love, who's not your average white republican candidate. i think what you do -- i mean, joan talked about young voters. that's an important demographic. republicans have lost them. a generation of them by 20 percentage points. that's because they're perceived to be on the wrong side of social issues. we have just spent four years in a serious economic decline. all these problems, fiscal policies are coming up. republicans were unable to convince people that they were offering a competing image on economics. democrats voted, i think, largely to protect themselves from the alleged predagss of the male white party. republicans to the extent they contributed to that just shot themselves in the foot. they didn't gain any registration in the last four years. how do you do that in the current climate? one way you do is it stop using

social issues as a way to it play offense on the cultural war. get rid of that. start talking about economics. >> all right. we're going to take a quick break. up next, four years from now, we're going to fast forward. four years from now, once again, we've been going all over the place. we went forward, back, forward again. what's topping the news four years from now, as in headlines? who's president? the brain trust knows. they know all. we'll have that after the break right here on msnbc, the place for politics and forecasting the future. don't go anywhere.

the brain trust is back for the last time today. joan walsh, perry bacon, matt. four years from now, day after the election, what is it? >> it's going to be "two glass ceilings shattered." i wanted to have some fun.

kristen gillebrand is out there. >> which bush? >> jeb, of course. >> that would be a heck of a headline. perry, what's the headline? >> "clinton defeats rubio, which we' we've talked about earlier. in 2004, if you told us barack obama would be president in 2008, we would have said, are you crazy? >> and matt, what's the headline for "reason" magazine four years from now? >> i don't know about "reason" b but "the "the new york post," hillary scratches condy. we have a worse one, but i don't want to commit to it yet. i think condoleezza rice has a trivial chance at being the nominee. >> here's the thing, joan. we all know that there is someone out there, if not a half dozen or so folks out there, that we're not talking about.

someone who's not on the radar politically. any idea at this point someone that maybe you know of? you know a lot more people than i do. maybe the american public isn't familiar with but we will become familiar with over the next few years. >> i did toss kristen gillebrand out there for a reason. a lot of women see her as a very strong contender on that bench if hillary doesn't decide to run. you know, i think that marco rubio is an interesting idea. we know about him, whether he can prevail. i'd love to see condy rice. i don't see that happening. i don't think the republican party is going to get over its issues around choice. >> and she's pro choice. >> i would like to see it, too, matt. >> perry, is there somebody out there we're not talking about? maybe somebody you know of that we'll become familiar with? >> we mentioned her in the poll a little bit, but elizabeth warren, i think is -- >> but she's so polarizing.

>> to be on the national ticket, you only have to have the democrats like you. she's beloved among democrats. when i was in chicago election night, huge cheers when she won. she's a very, very popular figure. not at hillary clinton levels, but probably beyond joe biden. >> matt welsh, it would seem to me, at least, that the next cycle there will almost inevitably be at least one woman on each ticket, no? >> i think so. i think also the one name we haven't talked about who will be running, i think, is rand paul. there's going to be some place for the ron paul energy to move to. it certainly didn't coalesce behind mitt romney. >> it's not a show if matt doesn't mention ron paul once. matt, thank you. joan walsh, thanks to you.

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